Discussion:
True Kabbalah
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Dennes De Mennes
2011-08-17 02:50:14 UTC
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Kabbalah is the science of our internality. All it does is it takes
regular religious concepts to a whole new level, or deeper revelation of
the forces of Nature, which they call 'the Creator'. It is not a person,
it's just a steady force of goodness, if you will. It only does good, to
the creatures, wanting their eventual independence and perfection. In
other words, the Creator shattered the original soul, Adam, to give it
its 'plan of development', so that it now consciously makes its way back
to the original coupling with the Light. The soul was a vessel that
received the light perfectly, but it just didn't know it until it went
through the shattering, etc. Adam was not to eat of the Tree of
Knowledge, because he could only handle little desires at a time, and
not hard-core ones which he would not use properly in order to bestow
pleasure to the giver but for selfish egoistic reasons, so it fell, and
so it ended in the corporeal world (this was all planned, by the way),
or state of complete concealment of the Light. Now first a piece of the
broken soul becomes aware that there is a higher state as if by chance.
Someone just mentions Kabbalah to him or her somehow and he begins the
ascent back to being equal and opposite to the Creator, fulfilling its
role of reception for one, and also being completely similar to Him, by
being a bestower, also, in losing itself in the idea of the group (all
the spiritual thoughts and desires are given there). Before correction
we have no idea of what bestowal is on the spiritual level. This only
happens as the Light works in us as we study and join other Kabbalists
and create a 'common vessel' of reception for the Light. Any corporeal
act is not true bestowal, it is always done egoistically. On our own we
would stay in egoism, but the Light must enter into us through the
group, the Rav (teacher) and the books, and slowly change our thought
behind any action from 'how can I get the most benefit for myself' to
'how can I bestow pleasure to the Creator' and that's done through the
formula of 'love thy neighbor as thyself', and that again doesn't mean
neighbors in corporeality but kabbalists studying in a group with the
same desire, that are building a common vessel and revealing the Creator
through their connection. The only time that the Creator is revealed and
our internality is actually affected in any way. This is how the Zohar
was written, the most important Kabbalist book. Ten kabbalists got
together and manifested the Light and all their experiences on attaining
the upper realm finally were put down to paper and so became like a map
for anyone in our day to climb up the ladder back to the state of
adhesion but just conscious this time, an act of our free will done
against our Nature. By Nature we would remain egoistic, and we would be
developed by 'blows of Nature' or 'the path of suffering' and would take
many lifetimes, rather than one lifetime which can be achievable through
Kabbalah.

octinomos
Tom
2011-08-17 03:51:19 UTC
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Post by Dennes De Mennes
Kabbalah is the science of our internality. All it does is it takes
regular religious concepts to a whole new level, or deeper revelation of
the forces of Nature, which they call 'the Creator'. It is not a person,
it's just a steady force of goodness, if you will. It only does good, to
the creatures, wanting their eventual independence and perfection. In
other words, the Creator shattered the original soul, Adam, to give it
its 'plan of development', so that it now consciously makes its way back
to the original coupling with the Light. The soul was a vessel that
received the light perfectly, but it just didn't know it until it went
through the shattering, etc. Adam was not to eat of the Tree of
Knowledge, because he could only handle little desires at a time, and
not hard-core ones which he would not use properly in order to bestow
pleasure to the giver but for selfish egoistic reasons, so it fell, and
so it ended in the corporeal world (this was all planned, by the way),
or state of complete concealment of the Light. Now first a piece of the
broken soul becomes aware that there is a higher state as if by chance.
Someone just mentions Kabbalah to him or her somehow and he begins the
ascent back to being equal and opposite to the Creator, fulfilling its
role of reception for one, and also being completely similar to Him, by
being a bestower, also, in losing itself in the idea of the group (all
the spiritual thoughts and desires are given there). Before correction
we have no idea of what bestowal is on the spiritual level. This only
happens as the Light works in us as we study and join other Kabbalists
and create a 'common vessel' of reception for the Light. Any corporeal
act is not true bestowal, it is always done egoistically. On our own we
would stay in egoism, but the Light must enter into us through the
group, the Rav (teacher) and the books, and slowly change our thought
behind any action from 'how can I get the most benefit for myself' to
'how can I bestow pleasure to the Creator' and that's done through the
formula of 'love thy neighbor as thyself', and that again doesn't mean
neighbors in corporeality but kabbalists studying in a group with the
same desire, that are building a common vessel and revealing the Creator
through their connection. The only time that the Creator is revealed and
our internality is actually affected in any way. This is how the Zohar
was written, the most important Kabbalist book. Ten kabbalists got
together and manifested the Light and all their experiences on attaining
the upper realm finally were put down to paper and so became like a map
for anyone in our day to climb up the ladder back to the state of
adhesion but just conscious this time, an act of our free will done
against our Nature. By Nature we would remain egoistic, and we would be
developed by 'blows of Nature' or 'the path of suffering' and would take
many lifetimes, rather than one lifetime which can be achievable through
Kabbalah.
That's too big a mouthful of catechism to chew properly. If you try
to swallow it all at once, you'll choke.

Take smaller bites and do a lot more chewing.

Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
Dennes De Mennes
2011-08-17 04:30:16 UTC
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In article <f12d96ae-5ad9-4709-bc43-02e2340ea977
@h3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, ***@comcast.net says...
Post by Tom
Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
That's right. Adam and Eve are not two naked people frolicking through
an actual garden. It's just explaining the evolution of desire from its
early stages down onto the level we call 'our world' or the material
realm, if you will. The entire matter of creation is just 'the will to
receive'. That's what we work with. Kabbalah means reception.
Tom
2011-08-17 12:11:29 UTC
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Post by Dennes De Mennes
In article <f12d96ae-5ad9-4709-bc43-02e2340ea977
@h3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, ***@comcast.net says...
Post by Tom
Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
That's right. Adam and Eve are not two naked people frolicking through
an actual garden. It's just explaining the evolution of desire from its
early stages down onto the level we call 'our world' or the material
realm, if you will. The entire matter of creation is just 'the will to
receive'. That's what we work with. Kabbalah means reception.
You're easily impressed. You seem to think that nobody who spends
their whole fucking life in an academic ivory tower could possibly be
full of shit.

Except claiming to have read ridiculous engorging amounts about a
subject that actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the kind of
shit Kabbalah is pre-predicated as doing is just pap for pluperfect
fanboys like you. Bah!

You bore me.
Absorbed
2011-08-17 13:50:05 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by Dennes De Mennes
In article <f12d96ae-5ad9-4709-bc43-02e2340ea977
@h3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, ***@comcast.net says...
Post by Tom
Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
That's right. Adam and Eve are not two naked people frolicking through
an actual garden. It's just explaining the evolution of desire from its
early stages down onto the level we call 'our world' or the material
realm, if you will. The entire matter of creation is just 'the will to
receive'. That's what we work with. Kabbalah means reception.
You're easily impressed. You seem to think that nobody who spends
their whole fucking life in an academic ivory tower could possibly be
full of shit.
Except claiming to have read ridiculous engorging amounts about a
subject that actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the kind of
shit Kabbalah is pre-predicated as doing is just pap for pluperfect
fanboys like you. Bah!
You bore me.
If you say, I am bored too with this cretin, Tom-Christ!
--
I am absorbed with Tom and I am proudly Tom's sockpuppet. Tom-Christ
is within me.
Tom
2011-08-17 16:18:41 UTC
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Post by Absorbed
Post by Tom
Post by Dennes De Mennes
In article <f12d96ae-5ad9-4709-bc43-02e2340ea977
@h3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, ***@comcast.net says...
Post by Tom
Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
That's right. Adam and Eve are not two naked people frolicking through
an actual garden. It's just explaining the evolution of desire from its
early stages down onto the level we call 'our world' or the material
realm, if you will. The entire matter of creation is just 'the will to
receive'. That's what we work with. Kabbalah means reception.
You're easily impressed. You seem to think that nobody who spends
their whole fucking life in an academic ivory tower could possibly be
full of shit.
Except claiming to have read ridiculous engorging amounts about a
subject that actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the kind of
shit Kabbalah is pre-predicated as doing is just pap for pluperfect
fanboys like you. Bah!
You bore me.
If you say, I am bored too with this cretin, Tom-Christ!
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water!
And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew
them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb
does. Now, uh... now you tell me what you know.
Absorbed
2011-08-17 22:42:05 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by Absorbed
Post by Tom
Post by Dennes De Mennes
In article <f12d96ae-5ad9-4709-bc43-02e2340ea977
@h3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, ***@comcast.net says...
Post by Tom
Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
That's right. Adam and Eve are not two naked people frolicking through
an actual garden. It's just explaining the evolution of desire from its
early stages down onto the level we call 'our world' or the material
realm, if you will. The entire matter of creation is just 'the will to
receive'. That's what we work with. Kabbalah means reception.
You're easily impressed. You seem to think that nobody who spends
their whole fucking life in an academic ivory tower could possibly be
full of shit.
Except claiming to have read ridiculous engorging amounts about a
subject that actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the kind of
shit Kabbalah is pre-predicated as doing is just pap for pluperfect
fanboys like you. Bah!
You bore me.
If you say, I am bored too with this cretin, Tom-Christ!
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water!
And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew
them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb
does. Now, uh... now you tell me what you know.
Compared to that, nothing Master Tom!
--
I am absorbed with Tom and I am proudly Tom's sockpuppet. Tom-Christ
is within me.
RyFri
2011-08-18 03:15:23 UTC
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After having been in academia for 8 years, I realized that most of the
people have no common sense there and/or just follow each other like
puppies. The kabballah is something that has turned up at every corner
of my recent. Studies, from quantum physics to theosophy to the E8
theory and mathematics. To learn a little about it, I bought a book
called Kabballah for the layman, by Dr. Philip Berg. Has anyone read
this? It seemed pretty straight forward. Is this reccommended by
anyone? I just got volume I.
Tom
2011-08-18 04:43:31 UTC
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Post by RyFri
After having been in academia for 8 years, I realized that most of the
people have no common sense there and/or just follow each other like
puppies. The kabballah is something that has turned up at every corner
of my recent. Studies, from quantum physics to theosophy to the E8
theory and mathematics. To learn a little about it, I bought a book
called Kabballah for the layman, by Dr. Philip Berg. Has anyone read
this? It seemed pretty straight forward. Is this reccommended by
anyone? I just got volume I.
I haven't read the book but I have heard of "Dr" Philip S Berg. It
turns out that his claims to a doctorate are spurious. His Kabbalah
Centre in Los Angeles came to prominence with the recruitment of the
singer Madonna. However, the relationship turned sour when her
"Raising Malawi" charity scandal erupted and it was revealed that the
Kabbalah Centre was deeply involved in the multi-million dollar
shenanigans.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/04/03/madonna-s-malawi-disaster.html

Berg's organization sells "Kabbalah Water" that allegedly cures
cancer, red string that supposedly protected one from the "evil eye",
special kabbalistic astrological horoscopes, and so forth, all for
wildly high prices. One of their gags is to sell you a copy of the
Zohar in Aramaic at about a 500% mark-up and to tell you you don't
need to learn Aramaic in order to learn Kabbalah from it. All you
have to do is scan the pages and the esoteric meanings will magically
pop into your head. And cure all your illnesses, too.

He's a typical occult huckster. Let the buyer beware.
Absorbed
2011-08-18 13:34:25 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by RyFri
After having been in academia for 8 years, I realized that most of the
people have no common sense there and/or just follow each other like
puppies. The kabballah is something that has turned up at every corner
of my recent. Studies, from quantum physics to theosophy to the E8
theory and mathematics. To learn a little about it, I bought a book
called Kabballah for the layman, by Dr. Philip Berg. Has anyone read
this? It seemed pretty straight forward. Is this reccommended by
anyone? I just got volume I.
I haven't read the book but I have heard of "Dr" Philip S Berg. It
turns out that his claims to a doctorate are spurious. His Kabbalah
Centre in Los Angeles came to prominence with the recruitment of the
singer Madonna. However, the relationship turned sour when her
"Raising Malawi" charity scandal erupted and it was revealed that the
Kabbalah Centre was deeply involved in the multi-million dollar
shenanigans.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/04/03/madonna-s-malawi-disaster.html
Berg's organization sells "Kabbalah Water" that allegedly cures
cancer, red string that supposedly protected one from the "evil eye",
special kabbalistic astrological horoscopes, and so forth, all for
wildly high prices. One of their gags is to sell you a copy of the
Zohar in Aramaic at about a 500% mark-up and to tell you you don't
need to learn Aramaic in order to learn Kabbalah from it. All you
have to do is scan the pages and the esoteric meanings will magically
pop into your head. And cure all your illnesses, too.
He's a typical occult huckster. Let the buyer beware.
Thanks for the "heads up" Tom-Christ, should I destroy the one that you
sent me?
--
I am absorbed with Tom and I am proudly Tom's sockpuppet. Tom-Christ
is within me.
Tom
2011-08-18 13:57:17 UTC
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Post by Absorbed
Post by Tom
Post by RyFri
After having been in academia for 8 years, I realized that most of the
people have no common sense there and/or just follow each other like
puppies. The kabballah is something that has turned up at every corner
of my recent. Studies, from quantum physics to theosophy to the E8
theory and mathematics. To learn a little about it, I bought a book
called Kabballah for the layman, by Dr. Philip Berg. Has anyone read
this? It seemed pretty straight forward. Is this reccommended by
anyone? I just got volume I.
I haven't read the book but I have heard of "Dr" Philip S Berg. It
turns out that his claims to a doctorate are spurious. His Kabbalah
Centre in Los Angeles came to prominence with the recruitment of the
singer Madonna. However, the relationship turned sour when her
"Raising Malawi" charity scandal erupted and it was revealed that the
Kabbalah Centre was deeply involved in the multi-million dollar
shenanigans.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/04/03/madonna-s-malawi-disaster.html
Berg's organization sells "Kabbalah Water" that allegedly cures
cancer, red string that supposedly protected one from the "evil eye",
special kabbalistic astrological horoscopes, and so forth, all for
wildly high prices. One of their gags is to sell you a copy of the
Zohar in Aramaic at about a 500% mark-up and to tell you you don't
need to learn Aramaic in order to learn Kabbalah from it. All you
have to do is scan the pages and the esoteric meanings will magically
pop into your head. And cure all your illnesses, too.
He's a typical occult huckster. Let the buyer beware.
Thanks for the "heads up" Tom-Christ, should I destroy the one that you
sent me?
No keep it and use it for an eclectic doorstop of fire-fodder for those
chillingly vapid equinoxi.
RyFri
2011-08-18 21:26:03 UTC
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Thank you, Tom. I got it at a used book store. Now I know why it might
have been there. I will read it and summarily discard it. Do you
recommend any books which provide a good foundation to start learning
about kabbalah? I would be interested in hearing about any.
Tom
2011-08-18 23:35:08 UTC
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Post by RyFri
Thank you, Tom. I got it at a used book store. Now I know why it might
have been there. I will read it and summarily discard it. Do you
recommend any books which provide a good foundation to start learning
about kabbalah? I would be interested in hearing about any.
For folks who aren't focused exclusively on orthodox Judeaism, a good
foundation can be found by visiting the following web site:

http://www.digital-brilliance.com/index.php

I don't think you should discard the book you found, though.
Interesting and insightful ideas can be gotten even from the most
dubious of sources. Just don't place a lot of trust in it as
mainstream kabbalistic thought.
Absorbed
2011-08-18 23:54:39 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tom
Post by RyFri
Thank you, Tom. I got it at a used book store. Now I know why it might
have been there. I will read it and summarily discard it. Do you
recommend any books which provide a good foundation to start learning
about kabbalah? I would be interested in hearing about any.
For folks who aren't focused exclusively on orthodox Judeaism, a good
http://www.digital-brilliance.com/index.php
I don't think you should discard the book you found, though.
Interesting and insightful ideas can be gotten even from the most
dubious of sources. Just don't place a lot of trust in it as
mainstream kabbalistic thought.
Master Tom, I already asked that question!
--
I am absorbed with Tom and I am proudly Tom's sockpuppet. Tom-Christ
is within me.
Tom
2011-08-19 04:41:19 UTC
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Post by Absorbed
Post by Tom
Post by RyFri
Thank you, Tom. I got it at a used book store. Now I know why it might
have been there. I will read it and summarily discard it. Do you
recommend any books which provide a good foundation to start learning
about kabbalah? I would be interested in hearing about any.
For folks who aren't focused exclusively on orthodox Judeaism, a good
http://www.digital-brilliance.com/index.php
I don't think you should discard the book you found, though.
Interesting and insightful ideas can be gotten even from the most
dubious of sources. Just don't place a lot of trust in it as
mainstream kabbalistic thought.
Master Tom, I already asked that question!
True so I repeat with repetition.

I don't think you should discard the book you found, though.
Interesting and insightful ideas can be gotten even from the most
dubious of sources. Just don't place a lot of trust in it as
mainstream kabbalistic thought.

No keep it and use it for an eclectic doorstop of fire-fodder for those
chillingly vapid equinoxi.

Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
2011-08-18 05:38:43 UTC
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Post by RyFri
After having been in academia for 8 years, I realized that most of the
people have no common sense there and/or just follow each other
Sorta Kinda!
Schools just teaches you how to Parrot some Book, Doc!
Tom
2011-08-18 13:53:12 UTC
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Berg's work is an atrocious dumbing down of kabbalah developed for
marketing. I would say he is trying to be the L. Ron Hubbard of
kabbalah.
I would recommend a work called Path of Kabbalah, by David Sheinkin,
who I believe is a physicist as well as a kabbalist (unless it was
his teacher who was a physicist). If your interest in relationships
between certain aspects of the kabbalah and modern physics, this work
discusses some of those connections.
The works of Aryeh Kaplan, Moishe Idel, and Gershom Sholem are highly
regarded. Kaplan is the most eloquent on the mystical doctrine and
practice, Sholem on the history and philosophical patterns, and Idel
is somewhere in between the two.
Sheinkin is a joke and anyone who reads him is a joke vicariously. I'm
sure you could convince yourself of it if you wanted to. You've
convinced yourself of lots sillier shit than that. Maybe not.

Lots of things happen all by themselves. Earthquakes. Wind. Air. The
turning of the earth as it orbits the sun. And plenty more. These
things happen without anybody doing anything and despite anything
anyone can do. That's Sheinkin's line of intellectual harbingdasher.

How did it all start with Sheinkin? I don't know. And neither do you.
Even if you did, you'd be considered a thoughtless moron so who the
shit would care?
Absorbed
2011-08-18 13:57:46 UTC
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Post by Tom
Berg's work is an atrocious dumbing down of kabbalah developed for
marketing. I would say he is trying to be the L. Ron Hubbard of
kabbalah.
I would recommend a work called Path of Kabbalah, by David Sheinkin,
who I believe is a physicist as well as a kabbalist (unless it was
his teacher who was a physicist). If your interest in relationships
between certain aspects of the kabbalah and modern physics, this work
discusses some of those connections.
The works of Aryeh Kaplan, Moishe Idel, and Gershom Sholem are highly
regarded. Kaplan is the most eloquent on the mystical doctrine and
practice, Sholem on the history and philosophical patterns, and Idel
is somewhere in between the two.
Sheinkin is a joke and anyone who reads him is a joke vicariously. I'm
sure you could convince yourself of it if you wanted to. You've
convinced yourself of lots sillier shit than that. Maybe not.
Lots of things happen all by themselves. Earthquakes. Wind. Air. The
turning of the earth as it orbits the sun. And plenty more. These
things happen without anybody doing anything and despite anything
anyone can do. That's Sheinkin's line of intellectual harbingdasher.
How did it all start with Sheinkin? I don't know. And neither do you.
Even if you did, you'd be considered a thoughtless moron so who the
shit would care?
Agreed. To all!
--
I am absorbed with Tom and I am proudly Tom's sockpuppet. Tom-Christ
is within me.
Dennes De Mennes
2011-08-18 14:08:20 UTC
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In article <22a63835-f7d6-4cf9-8771-73420345cf15
@i9g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>, ***@gmail.com says...
Post by RyFri
After having been in academia for 8 years, I realized that most of the
people have no common sense there and/or just follow each other like
puppies. The kabballah is something that has turned up at every corner
of my recent. Studies, from quantum physics to theosophy to the E8
theory and mathematics. To learn a little about it, I bought a book
called Kabballah for the layman, by Dr. Philip Berg. Has anyone read
this? It seemed pretty straight forward. Is this reccommended by
anyone? I just got volume I.
i recommend you go to kabbalah.info and laitman.com, that's the real
stuff...
Absorbed
2011-08-18 15:45:07 UTC
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Berg's work is an atrocious dumbing down of kabbalah developed for marketing.
So say some of the more traditional Jewish kabbalists, but then again,
they say the same thing about the "hermetic kabbalah" too.
But let's put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. How about...
The kabbalah is an atrocious deconstruction of the Torah, embuing the
very letters of the text with meanings never intended by the original
authors.
Er, could you translate?
I would recommend a work called Path of Kabbalah, by David Sheinkin, who I believe is a physicist as well as a kabbalist (unless it was his teacher who was a physicist).
Dr. Sheinkin is a psychiatrist. His teacher was the esteemed orthodox
Jewish scholar Aryeh Kaplan, who did indeed have a Master's degree in
physics.
The works of Aryeh Kaplan, Moishe Idel, and Gershom Sholem are highly regarded. Kaplan is the most eloquent on the mystical doctrine and practice, Sholem on the history and philosophical patterns, and Idel is somewhere in between the two.
All excellent recommendations.
Your Word is all I need!
--
I am absorbed with Tom and I am proudly Tom's sockpuppet. Tom-Christ
is within me.
Tom
2011-08-18 15:47:43 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Absorbed
Berg's work is an atrocious dumbing down of kabbalah developed for marketing.
So say some of the more traditional Jewish kabbalists, but then again,
they say the same thing about the "hermetic kabbalah" too.
But let's put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. How about...
The kabbalah is an atrocious deconstruction of the Torah, embuing the
very letters of the text with meanings never intended by the original
authors.
Er, could you translate?
The kabbalah is a pre-modernist sacrum which was heartily deprecated by
pseudo-Jewish retractions.
Post by Absorbed
Your Word is all I need!
Now you got it. Beware.
Tom
2011-08-18 21:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Berg's work is an atrocious dumbing down of kabbalah developed for marketing.
So say some of the more traditional Jewish kabbalists, but then again,
they say the same thing about the "hermetic kabbalah" too.
But let's put the shoe on the other foot for a minute. How about...
The kabbalah is an atrocious deconstruction of the Torah, embuing the
very letters of the text with meanings never intended by the original
authors.
I would recommend a work called Path of Kabbalah, by David Sheinkin, who I believe is a physicist as well as a kabbalist (unless it was his teacher who was a physicist).
Dr. Sheinkin is a psychiatrist. His teacher was the esteemed orthodox
Jewish scholar Aryeh Kaplan, who did indeed have a Master's degree in
physics.
The works of Aryeh Kaplan, Moishe Idel, and Gershom Sholem are highly regarded. Kaplan is the most eloquent on the mystical doctrine and practice, Sholem on the history and philosophical patterns, and Idel is somewhere in between the two.
All excellent recommendations.
Poorly done forgeries are no more trouble than any other kind of
mutated-forgery estrainged via My Troll. They're just noise from
someone who not only has nothing to communicate to me by himself but
who also resents others communicating to me and so attempts to disrupt
it by owning the waves which contribute to the pandemonium which always
surrounds me controversially, eternally, and foreverally.

I've been around for years and years dealing with trolls of all kinds,
including quasi-compulsive frauds like My Troll. It doesn't upset me
when someone acts stupidly, nay, I have seen the before. I've seen it
all before and am confident I'll see more of it in the future.

I am unconcerned about "reputation", either. Bah! What take ye from a
King, Troll?

I don't think he has a choice in this matter. He *is* a total idiot.
That's why he tries to misrepresent other people's words and ideas
instead of making a case for his own. He can't compete as himself in
the arena of ideas because he doesn't actually have any ideas that are
in any way able to withstand my rectal examination.

Such pathetic little attempts at japery do seem to be the best you can
muster. No, chum, the hard truth is that you *couldn't* be more
absorbed by yourself.
Bassos
2011-08-17 16:38:00 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Absorbed
Post by Tom
You bore me.
If you say, I am bored too with this cretin, Tom-Christ!
Heh, 'bored' again, are we ?

See how you get influenced beyond what you yourself wil ?
(ofcourse you do not see, but perhaps you will feel instead)
Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
2011-08-18 05:37:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Bassos
Post by Absorbed
Post by Tom
You bore me.
If you say, I am bored too with this cretin, Tom-Christ!
Heh, 'bored' again, are we ?
Water Boarded!
Tom
2011-08-18 14:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Heh
*SHADDUP*
Dennes De Mennes
2011-08-18 15:00:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tom
Heh
*SHADDUP*
all of you dumbasses, get off this thread, you're making it stupid...
Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
2011-08-18 05:36:16 UTC
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Post by Dennes De Mennes
In article <f12d96ae-5ad9-4709-bc43-02e2340ea977
@h3g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, ***@comcast.net says...
Post by Tom
Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
That's right. Adam and Eve are not two naked people frolicking through
an actual garden.
And damned well were Not cast Down to Earth Afterwards!
Tom
2011-08-18 21:32:23 UTC
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Post by Tom
Post by Dennes De Mennes
Kabbalah is the science of our internality. All it does is it takes
regular religious concepts to a whole new level, or deeper revelation of
the forces of Nature, which they call 'the Creator'. It is not a person,
it's just a steady force of goodness, if you will. It only does good, to
the creatures, wanting their eventual independence and perfection. In
other words, the Creator shattered the original soul, Adam, to give it
its 'plan of development', so that it now consciously makes its way back
to the original coupling with the Light. The soul was a vessel that
received the light perfectly, but it just didn't know it until it went
through the shattering, etc. Adam was not to eat of the Tree of
Knowledge, because he could only handle little desires at a time, and
not hard-core ones which he would not use properly in order to bestow
pleasure to the giver but for selfish egoistic reasons, so it fell, and
so it ended in the corporeal world (this was all planned, by the way),
or state of complete concealment of the Light. Now first a piece of the
broken soul becomes aware that there is a higher state as if by chance.
Someone just mentions Kabbalah to him or her somehow and he begins the
ascent back to being equal and opposite to the Creator, fulfilling its
role of reception for one, and also being completely similar to Him, by
being a bestower, also, in losing itself in the idea of the group (all
the spiritual thoughts and desires are given there). Before correction
we have no idea of what bestowal is on the spiritual level. This only
happens as the Light works in us as we study and join other Kabbalists
and create a 'common vessel' of reception for the Light. Any corporeal
act is not true bestowal, it is always done egoistically. On our own we
would stay in egoism, but the Light must enter into us through the
group, the Rav (teacher) and the books, and slowly change our thought
behind any action from 'how can I get the most benefit for myself' to
'how can I bestow pleasure to the Creator' and that's done through the
formula of 'love thy neighbor as thyself', and that again doesn't mean
neighbors in corporeality but kabbalists studying in a group with the
same desire, that are building a common vessel and revealing the Creator
through their connection. The only time that the Creator is revealed and
our internality is actually affected in any way. This is how the Zohar
was written, the most important Kabbalist book. Ten kabbalists got
together and manifested the Light and all their experiences on attaining
the upper realm finally were put down to paper and so became like a map
for anyone in our day to climb up the ladder back to the state of
adhesion but just conscious this time, an act of our free will done
against our Nature. By Nature we would remain egoistic, and we would be
developed by 'blows of Nature' or 'the path of suffering' and would take
many lifetimes, rather than one lifetime which can be achievable through
Kabbalah.
That's too big a mouthful of catechism to chew properly. If you try
to swallow it all at once, you'll choke.
Take smaller bites and do a lot more chewing.
Let's start with "science of internality". It's all you. It isn't
something external to you. So when you study Kabbalah, you are
mapping your consciousness, but the map, as Korzybski wisely wrote, is
not the territory. The sephiroth and the paths and the letters and
the numbers are all descriptive metaphors used to allow us to make
some kind of sense out of a huge number of largely invisible processes
by which our nervous systems interact with the world around us. If
you forget that, the living metaphors of Kabbalah are nothing but
empty shells and all you end up with is, as the Wizard of Oz put it, a
"clattering collection of caliginous junk".
Poorly done forgeries are no more trouble than any other kind of
mutated-forgery estrainged via My Troll. They're just noise from
someone who not only has nothing to communicate to me by himself but
who also resents others communicating to me and so attempts to disrupt
it by owning the waves which contribute to the pandemonium which always
surrounds me controversially, eternally, and foreverally.

I've been around for years and years dealing with trolls of all kinds,
including quasi-compulsive frauds like My Troll. It doesn't upset me
when someone acts stupidly, nay, I have seen the before. I've seen it
all before and am confident I'll see more of it in the future.

I am unconcerned about "reputation", either. Bah! What take ye from a
King, Troll?

I don't think he has a choice in this matter. He *is* a total idiot.
That's why he tries to misrepresent other people's words and ideas
instead of making a case for his own. He can't compete as himself in
the arena of ideas because he doesn't actually have any ideas that are
in any way able to withstand my rectal examination.

Such pathetic little attempts at japery do seem to be the best you can
muster. No, chum, the hard truth is that you *couldn't* be more
absorbed by yourself.
Lady Azure, Baroness of the North Pole
2011-08-18 05:35:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dennes De Mennes
Kabbalah is
Gaebalah!
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